I can imagine the outrage if it were Christians, Atheists or what have you, that decided to cordon off an area and declare ipso facto this is a “such and such” area. Sorry, but making an enclave, in this case a Jewish enclave, and in this day and age, especially when Islamization of the west is in high gear and certain fundamuslim groups are just dripping at the mouth waiting for a similar chance, uh, eh….no way. KGS
NOTE: Commenter Steve Bronfman has a different opinion, and to be fair, there is another take on the almost imaginary line (eruv) that’s planned to exist in the Australian city. click here.
Personally, if we lived in another age, perhaps, but we’re not, what’s one to say when a Muslim group wants to do some other religious motivated exercise in a secular neighborhood? I am not convinced here, it sets a bad precedent that will be exploited in due course.
This is a very bad idea! They should not impose the Jewish laws to others. I hope they make up their minds about this.
Well they don’t appear to believe that they’re doing that, and to be fair, no law is actually being imposed, but cordeoning off a special area for your own group sets a very bad precedent. The Islamo–whackos would take that and really run with it.
Okay, I agree with you, although I wouldn’t compare orthodox Jews with Islamowacko’s. Those Islamowacko’s are really something special.
It’s not that I’m comparing the two, but warning of the precedent being laid. If we lived in an age where Islam didn’t exist, or no where even near a chance to exploit such a development, then I probably wouldn’t give it a second thought. I think the risks outweigh the approval for such a thing.
I get that, but that precedent is already there. Before this story came out there were already Muslim neighborhoods ruled by sharia law. So maybe it’s the other way around.
I understand your concerns, but my concern is that in order to solve problems in the Muslim community the Jewish community will suffer from that. For example: the Muslim schools in the Netherlands are very bad. They don’t promote integration and they fail the meet the education standards. Jewish schools do very well, there is no problem there. But the Muslim schools were aloud in the first place because of the precedent for the Jewish schools. Some PM’s say that in order to stop the failure of the Muslim education they will have to stop the Jewish education too. To me, that’s not fair to the Jewish people here in the Netherlands.
Okay, I normally agree with you guys, but this is so misunderstood it’s rediculous. An Eruv is meant to mimic the “city walls” so that orthodox Jews; who live there anyway, can push baby strollers and carry keys on the Sabbath (they believe they’re not meant to except within the non-existant (in the modern age) “city walls”. It is not an “enclave” in which non-Jews aren’t welcome. This is a serious misrepresentation of the issue. That TV show is sensationality anyway but I suspect they’ve decided to pick on Jews so they can’t be accused of singling out Muslims due to their recent anti-Jihad stories.
In practice you’re literally talking about a thin wire running along the electricity wires that you wouldn’t even notice (see video below). Sorry guys, but this is a storm in a teacup. One has existed in Melbourne for years (Australia’s other big city) and most people (Jewish or otherwise) wouldn’t even notice it.
This is how an American show recently dealt with exactly the same issue;
Ok Steve, we will have to agree to disagree. I did not over sensationalize the story, I explained my reasoning behind the post as I always do, especially in a situation like this. I added your link to the EOZ blog post, who BTW, I know personally. I am not even close to being convinced by your argument, but at least I leave it open for people to make their own minds up. thanks for the second link. KGS
…but it’s literally a wire that’s meant to symbolize the city walls. The Rabbi’s sought to find a practical solution to their religious inability to carry goods on the sabbath and this is it. It’s not a real wall just a symbolic one. In other words orthodox Jews can’t leave this area on the sabbath and carry something, so the only one effected are jews. The alternative to a thin wire around the suburb is orthodox Jews not being able to carry anything (keys etc) on Shabbas. I simply fail to see how this effects anyone else?
I’m using a computer on the sabbath btw I’m not religious but It seems to me it’s like me complaining about the sound of church bells or the church declaring my home in their parish.
Also happy to agree to disagree. Your sites one of the best there is.
Thanks Steve, I truly do understand the complexities surrounding justifiable Jewish concerns, traditional anti-Semitism in all of its nuances, this just happens to be one of those situations where I find the minuses out weighing the pluses,… at least at the present time. Thanks for your understanding.
There are similar Jewish ‘enclaves’ in NY. As a Jew, I am very uncomfortable with the concept. A couple of years ago, I drove into one of these communities (they are really open to all – except on the Sabbath when everything is closed) and was suprised to notice the local fire/rescue dept. and some local street signs labelled in Hebrew. There were multiple yeshivas and synagogues lining the main drag all identified in large Hebrew signage, while the english translation – when provided – was on separate signs with significantly smaller font . I couldn’t wait to leave the area, resenting the feeling of being a foreigner in my own state. I resent the usurpation of America by any foreign identity. There are areas like Kiriyas Joel (spelling?) which have very high % of welfare recipients, where the families intermarry and breed with similar problems dealing with congenital defects experienced by Muslims – again at taxpayer expense.
It is just plain wrong.
Thanks WTD, I appreciate your input. There are some worrisome aspects to the whole deal, and if we’re going to be fair to all, we have to be equal in are treatment to individual groups….of individuals. I find it troublesome in sections of Miami where signs in Spanish are everywhere, and you literally have to seek out the English. It’s human nature to want something of your own, and live with those you’re more comfortable with and share an equal amount of values, but their has to be a limit, or the US balkanizes.
Politicians love to cater to groups because it provides them with demographic voting groups to which they can promise, and for the most part deliver in catering to their select needs, but it comes at expense of the community as a whole. The concept of treating people as individuals within a community has to be reintroduced, otherwise the US becomes just another multi-cultural construct, and no longer interested in the freedom of the individual. It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Sad.