TOP POST TODAY
Elisabeth’s trial for “insulting a religion” resumes today, Henrik Clausen from EuropeNews will be feeding the Tundra Tabloids a live feed directly from the courtroom in Vienna. The trial is set to proceed at 9:00 this morning, 10:00 Finnish time. The Gates of Vienna has posted the state’s specific charges against Elisabeth, here.
THE TT’S LIVE BLOGGING OF THE TRIAL BEGINS:
NOTE: All pics taken by Henrik Raeder Clausen
10: 14: It’s a hazy day in Vienna, and we’re awaiting the start of the second hearing in the case against Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff, who is charged with ”Inciting hatred” and ”Denigrating the teachings of a recognized religion” in her seminar to FPÖ about political Islam.
At the first hearing on 23rd November 2010, the basic charges were laid out, with the prosecutor quoting a few passages as foundation about the case, followed by ESW and her lawyer detailing the context for what was said, supplying details and sources for each.
Also the journalist from NEWS.at, Dolna, was present at the first hearing, where she was permitted to witness for the prosecutor, in spite of her not being called to do so. She was asked to explain various issues of her original article, including the reasons for attributing quotes from other people to ESW, and her use of remarks during the breaks as if they were parts of the seminar. She quoted ”Dramaturgic reasons” for doing so.
The current issue of NEWS.at has a follow-up to their original article, with references to the FPÖ chairman Heinz-Christian Strache supporting ESW. The article notes that in this hearing, actual evidence in the form of recordings from the seminar will be presented, stating that this is probably a bad idea for the defence.
We are certainly looking forward to actual evidence being presented, as not even the prosecutor had gone through the original evidence in the first hearing, relying instead on the transcript provided by NEWS.at. A certified German translation of select passages of Reliance of the Traveller has been prepared by the defence, to document that the interpretations provided by ESW are indeed in line with canonical Islamic law.
ESW arrives. Session starts
10:52: Some 30 persons are present, including several journalists and Austrian television.
Defence hands over the translation of relevant parts of Reliance of the Traveller. The judge verifies basic personal facts about ESW, then proceeds directly to playing the seminar tapes. Noise is quite audible in the recordings. This goes to the heart of our problems with terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism, and will be reproduced in part here.
First issue taken up is the Muslim Brotherhood and its extensive political influence in Austria and Europe, and their desire to implement religious rule (Sharia) where possible, and the use of terrorism to pursue this objective. The lamentable lack of strong, moderate voices from Islam.
The Hadith is quoted, for it consists of what Muhammad did and said, the ideal for pious Muslims and the foundation for Sharia law, which basically codifies Quranic commandments and behaviour described in the Hadith into what is today Islamic law.
ESW: There is no Islam without Sharia, that cannot be separated. Sharia-based societies have been known for many centuries, and still exist today. The aim is to establish an order of society similar to that Muhammad had decreed and exemplified. The ultimate aim of Islamists today remains the same: To implement Sharia as widely as possible, ideally throughout the world. Sura 9:5 is an example of these:
Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful
11:00 Next mentioned is Taqiyya – the permission and/or obligation to lie towards non-Muslims when doing so will further the cause of Islam. Quran, Bukhari and Muslim scriptural references are given for this. Also described in detailed in Reliance of the Traveller chapter 8.
Dr. Rami interrupts, asking for a clarification of the relevance of this passage. There seems to be a difference from the transcript. PowerPoint presentations are brought out to clarify.
The religious sanctioned lying is difficult for our politicians to handle. It is not clearly described in the Quran, is mainly based on Hadith, drawn on Muhammads’ tactics against his enemies.
Some discusssion with the audience follows. References are made to a variety of Quran verses, and the principle of abrogation in Islam.
THE JUDGE: Judge Neubauer
11:12 Henrik says that there’s some kind of break happening presently. More to follow
11:00 Dr. Rami interrupts to point out that the quiet, factual tone of the seminar demonstrates that this is not hate speech, but an educational setting going through relevant documentation.
Dr. Rami also hightlights the question from the first seminar, if it would remain legal to say ”Islam is bullshit”, pointing out that this was not a statement of fact (visual ‘quoting’ had been used by ESW to indicate this). The relevant seminar recording is selected to be played next.
Back to the seminar tapes. Euro-Islam is discussed. ”Muslims hate us”. Elisabeth is heard saying: Who here would dare go in the street with a sign: ”Islam is Bullshit!”?
The judge discusses the charges, and the statement that the conduct of Muhammad is exemplary for Muslims, including the problem of Muhammad marrying a 6-year old girl, and what exactly that would be called today, if not paedophilia.
Dr. Rami interrupts the playback, pointing out that the purpose of playing the tapes has been accomplished, namely demonstrating that the sessions were scholary, throughoutly documented, and in no way constituted ”incitement to hatred” or similar.
Judge Neubauer adjourns the hearing, scheduling the next one for February 15th at 10:30.
NOTE. The judge has introduced a new point: discrimination of religious beliefs, the lawyer was not prepared for this point to be raised. That’s why the trial is over for now, with it being scheduled to resume on Feb 15.
Thank you very much, TT, for live-blogging ESW’s hearing. I stayed up all night (in the U.S. Midwest) so that I could be with you folks, “real-time.”
My thanks, Henrick, for the photos. The photos are very helpful. I have never seen an Austrian courtroom.
Please give Elisabeth a hug from me.
Kind regards from the USA,
Thanks for staying up Freya! I just sent Elisabeth your kind regards and support. We will be doing this again, unfortunately, but we hope to prevail.
More than welcome Bluepanic.
Mega ditto Freyja’s Cats comment ~ though, I did not stay up the entire night, I did wake early to catch the updates.
Re: “The judge has introduced a new point: discrimination of religious beliefs, the lawyer was not prepared for this point to be raised. ”
Good grief. A new point? Are all scholarly lectures to be subjected to the standard of “discrimination of religious beliefs”? Consider the implications of any scholarly topic which is not sharia compliant, or ‘Islam-friendly’.
The new GZ imam professes an Islamic history of “stem cell research conducted by Muslim doctors in the second century after hijrah (eighth-century CE)”. Will challenging this nonsense lead to “discrimination of religious beliefs” charges ? Is this what Austria (EU, USA, Canada, Australia etc) really wants?
In America, as well as the EU, textbooks are adapted to suit a pro-Islam bias, to which we find ourselves challenging such bias’. The implications of this new charge is extremely alarming.
They are trying to pursue the same angle that they used on Austrian Susanne Winter, and the Finnish courts did with Jussi Halla-aho. They’re saying in essence, fact has nothing to do with it, it’s how one feels offended that matters most, and only the minorities, never the majority.
Thanks a lot TT
More than welcome Aag
If discrimination against religious beliefs is illegal, aren’t all religions illegal as each says their beliefs are right and everyone else’s religion is wrong?
John, they’re not building their case on anything closely resembling the rule of law, it’s all rigged. When truth is no longer a defense, the whole concept of a fair trial goes out the window.
Discrimination of religion! That is outrageous, and dangerous for the future within the EU. One can no longer travel to a country that uses and maybe implements such ideas.
That telling the truth, as one see it, should be criminal, that is what we thought about should belong to the Nazitime, Sovjet and to the darkest dictatorships – Welcome to the new Europe. It seems like the continent already has grown into Eurabia!
What useful idiots can run this court room and still look themselves in the mirror before they go to work!
Elisabeth I too stand behind you, and I will challenge the society here by getting more an more eager to tell the truth, as I see it, when it comes to islam and the little helpers, who is curling their take over!
Thanks Hans, I will forward your sentiments to Elisabeth.
I’m an Austrian citizen, living in the US since a couple of years. I’m following the development of the political situation in Austria and Europe through several web blogs but this is first time that I saw your page. Great for blogging that and I’ll now definitely tag your site. Go on with your great work.
Thanks Harald, really glad to have you as a reader. Your kind words are much appreciated.
Please send my good wishes to courageous Elisabeth. Please tell her that there are many many people all over the world who support her. Liberal fascists cannot keep the ordinary citizens of Europe quiet forever. Many people are praying for her in the UK.
Elizabeth, I support you, am with you in my thougths and am spreading your message to all infidels. I am from Czech Republic but live in USA amazed at the ocean of naivetei and ignorance all around. You and a handful of others are a glimmer of hope. Never give up, never.