Ronald Reagan:
“The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom…”
And….
“Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem.”
Freedom and liberty of the individual are best protected when government is as distant and innocuous as possible. The less ‘geniuses’ are allowed to scheme and intrude into the private affairs of the ordinary citizen, the more free the people are to pursue their own self interests and be productive members in the civil society.
When you have a government that thinks it can dictate its whims, its vision of what society should be, at the expense of individual liberty, that is a government in need of being set out to pasture through the voting booth.
What if an adult jewish man converts to protestant. How he gets his foreskin back ?
Why would you be concerned with another man’s foreskin? What’s your personal….”skin in the game”?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem Bzzt! Thank you for playing. It’s a good question, and even more if he converts to Sikhism, which values an intact body, or Hinduism, whose devotees may worship Shiva by hanging weights from their penises.
To KGS:
Conclusion: You (Tundra Tabloid) put yourself to the position to decide about the fate of a newborn baby’s foreskin. I think it is wrong. You are welcome to this millennium.
I read somewhere that in US the majority of Jewish boys are not circumcised (unconfirmed information). In a broad sense we discuss about human rights.
Hi Pekka, I happen to believe it’s an issue of the rights of the parents. They choose how to raise their children not the state or nosey outsiders.
KGS.
In western countries the human rights of babies are appreciated. You represent the East (middle east) where the parents have rights to the body of their children.
There is a collision of two cultures and I think that eastern people have to adopt to the western values in this issue when they migrate to Europe or America.
But we both surely oppose circumcision of the muslim girls, another collision of cultures.
Have a nice autumn.
Hi Pekka, of course human rights of babies are respected in the west. The problem here is that a faction is intent on imposing its own views upon a minority, which in fact has greater implications than just circumcision alone. You happen to believe that it violates a babies human right, many in the west however, do not. Their views are just as valid, and I would say, even more so. In the end, you can pull up medical reviews that speak of the ills of circumcision, as well as I that speak of its benefits. The end game here is forcing the states will upon a minority that has in fact been discriminated against by thuggtarian regimes in the past, using the same arguments.
It belongs to the parents to decide for the child. Female mutilation is another kettle of fish altogether and shouldn’t be confused with this, its not circumcision. I will always opt for the role of parents deciding what is best for their children, especially so since generations of children in the US have already been circumcized by the medical profession and to no ill effect. This is a bogus issue in my opinion.
To KGS.
Nobody wants that religious circumcision shall be prohibited is Israel. Israel has her own laws. So have Finland and Germany their own laws. The law, which prohibits circumcision, does not harm the baby, on the contrary. A Jewish or Mohammedan adult man can allow the circumcision if he wants. Ask them.
Pekka we can go around and around on this. The child is not an adult, the parent has the responsibility to raise and to tend o the child’s needs as they see fit, its not the role of government to stick its nose into private affairs of the individual, that the parents are, acting on behalf of their child. Big government butt out.
The speech of Czech President is a very good one. As Pekka Nykänen here refers to “Human Rights”, Vaclav Klaus states the real meaning of such concept.
Human Rights oppose the individual freedom, and that happens to fit people like Pekka Nykänen. But it does not fit to people like myself or Tundra Tabloids, who happen to believe that I can make better selections of cases that are related to my own life.
Human rights happen to be less in worth than freedom of religion. We alla remember what happened in old communist countries that limited the freedom of religion. The moral standards the modern Red-Green ideology is now oppressing to all of us will not remain eternally. As didn’t the standards of Nazi-Germany or Soviet Union.
If parents in some African Muslim countries want to circumcision their daughters, it has nothing to do with the circumcision of Jewish (or Muslim) boys in Finland. The parents have the right to make wrong decisions – that is the price of FREEDOM. If African Muslim girls are mutilated, we can only tell them about the habits of our culture and wish that within some time they will adopt our moral standards.
People like Pekka Nykänen really scare me, because there is no limit, not a back line, when they think they have control enough. They will always find reasons to prohibit different habits.
The speech linked above is really worth reading.
Thanks Kumitonttu, much appreciated. Vaclav Klaus really does spell it it rather succinctly. Real freedoms are hard won, but easily given away.
Kumitonttu writes:
” If African Muslim girls are mutilated, we can only tell them about the habits of our culture and wish that within some time they will adopt our moral standards.”
I disagree with pseudonym Kumitonttu. If the clitoris of a finnish muslim girl is removed or harmed by her parents, it shall be a legal issue and the parents shall be penalized.
We can not (in Finland) segregate people in legal issues on racial and religious motives.
Btw: What says new Testament:
Roomalaiskirje 4
https://raamattu.uskonkirjat.net/servlet/biblesite.Bible?chp=1&ref=Room.+4%3A1&rnd=1347156376106
Thus there is a difference between old Testament and new Testament in this issue.
I disagree with pseudonym Kumitonttu. If the clitoris of a finnish muslim girl
I was not talking about Finnish muslim girls but Africans. In Finland our culture does not tolerate mutilating girls, so it is simply against our laws.
What you do not accept is my view that freedom of religion exceeds the human rights. Parents have a chance to raise their children in a wrong and harmful way, but it is a smaller threat than government telling what we must believe in and how to raise the children.