FIC Finland FIP Taqqiya

Finnish Islamic Council Doesn’t Support an Islamic Party…….

Or at least not yet. The establishment of the Finnish Islamic Islamist Party, (FIP) and the negative publicity that has surrounded it, has brought a fresh round of headaches to the Finnish Islamic Council that was itself founded just over a year ago. According to the FIC’s chairman of the executive, Anas Hajjar:

“First of all, the focus in the media has been on a few statements made by the party. Second, representatives of the Islamic Party appear to have been very eager to bask in the media spotlight – much more so than members of the Islamic Council, for instance, who are more cautious in their statements”

Those “few statements” Hajjar alludes to, are the FIP’s stated intention to establish sharia in Finland, which includes among other things, the rejection of music classes for Muslim students as well as other Islamic religious demands. The FIC is more cautious in their statements, which means, that they don’t necessarily disagree with the FIP, but that they should be more gaurded in expressing their true aims and goals.

But wait, that’s not all, Hajjar continues:

“We have felt that we can achieve our goals in other ways than by taking part in politics. Societal activities are something that we see in the future, but they are not our priority at this moment.”

Got that? The Islamic umbrella group that includes 18 other Islamic organizations, doesn’t really disagree with the Finnish Islamic Party’s founding, but that the timing for such a party isn’t right. In other words –after reading between the lines– their numbers are such (25-30 000)that they are not able to mount an proper defence of an Islamist agenda. They are getting their noses bloodied in the Finnish media and can’t do a thing about it.

You see, the media is very fickle here, they won’t go out of their way to publish a picture of Mohamed, but they will take to task the Islamists within Finland who openly announce their true goals of changing Finnish society to accomodate their religious/political demands.

The recent statements coming from the FIC about the Finnish Islamic Party, are as worrisome as the stated goals of the FIP itself, which is made up of Finnish converts to Islam. The Finnish converts have not yet learned the Islamic art of “taqiyya” (deception for religious/political reasons), something which Anas Hajjar has clearly more experience with. More here. *L* KGS

FROM THE COMMENT SECTION:

Anonymous: In Helsingin Sanomat, Anas Hajjar says that “Muslims have been an influential force in Finnish society and Finnish politics for decades”. It would be interesting to learn what concrete evidence there is about this “influentialness” of theirs! Sure, Finnish society adheres to the current multicultural holy writ as do all other Western countries, but what specific inroads mr. Hajjar thinks Muslims have made in Finland? What outstanding accomplishments or great skills they have shown here, expect skills in demanding fatter welfare checks and dispensations (I know, for I have worked in the field of social services)?

The Tundra Tabloids adds, that the Islamic Tatar community, the first ever Islamic community in Finland, has assimilated itself thoroughly into Finnish society. Though amongst their number are many devout Muslims, they have never seen the need to address the religious/political status quo in Finland, in order to exact a greater role for their faith. They have conducted themselves in much the same manner as the Jewish community in Finland. Both groups by the way, are indistinguishable from the Christian Finnish majority.

7 Responses

  1. In Helsingin Sanomat, Anas Hajjar says that “Muslims have been an influential force in Finnish society and Finnish politics for decades”. It would be interesting to learn what concrete evidence there is about this “influentialness” of theirs! Sure, Finnish society adheres to the current multicultural holy writ as do all other Western countries, but what specific inroads mr. Hajjar thinks Muslims have made in Finland? What outstanding accomplishments or great skills they have shown here, expect skills in demanding fatter welfare checks and dispensations (I know, for I have worked in the field of social services)?

  2. “The Finnish converts have not yet learned the Islamic art of “taqiyya””

    Which is exactly why it is not surprising that Finnish Islamic Council decided to come up and publish a statement. It is too early to demand sharia.

    FIC and the multiculti crowd want Abdullah Tammi to shut up, period.

  3. Your use of “taqqiya” is like old western Marxists talking about “false consciousness”. If the ‘masses’ in the UK, or US or where ever said they wanted revolution, then that was obviously just fine for the commies. But the masses didn’t say that, rather they said they were perfectly happy living in a democracy and getting to vote for their leaders every four years. Now this obviously upset the Commies greatly, so they said that the masses didn’t really believe that, they had just been tricked into it by the bourgeois cultural hegemony, yadda yadda yadda. So for the Marxists it was heads we win, tails you loose. Perhaps it is no wonder that Frontpage mag, which is run by an old Trot, has been so instrumental in popularising this Shia theological concept. New ideology, old bottle?

    So basically your post accuses Anas Hajjar of lying. He might be a liar, I don’t know, but I will presume he isn’t unless there is some evidence suggesting otherwise – innocent until proven guilty and all that… His statement actually agrees with your position – that the FIP is ridiculous – so unless you have some other evidence that you haven’t put in the post, it appears the main reason you suspect that he is lying about this – the “taqqiyya gambit” lets call it – is that he is a Muslim.

    You have correctly pointed out to me in the past that the unfairness of the “divided loyalty” claim against, say, American Jews. By taking a pro-Israel stance they get accused of being unpatriotic, an accusation that may well be utterly baseless but logically it is impossible to prove the claim wrong. The way the “counter-jihad” blogosphere uses the term Taqqiya is exactly the same. Any publicly active Muslim is in a Catch 22 position that if they say they hate all kuffars – well that’s fine, we’ll take them at the word. But if they believe in tolerance, human rights and pink fluffy nice things – well then clearly they are lying. I was once asked a British-Pakistani academic I know if he knew what Taqqiya was, and he laughed hard and said he had never heard of it until he read about it on “Little Green Footballs”, but then he added “but I would say that wouldn’t I?”

    I wonder if you know why the Finnish Islamic Council was formed? It was basically at the the initiative of the government, not the fractured and at times conflicting groups within what you can’t really call “Finland’s Muslim community”. I think it was a bad idea because basically due to a fear of radicalisation etc. you are pushing a singular religious identity on to what were previously predominantly diverse and ethnically self defining groups.

    Apologies for the very long comment but there you go.

  4. Hi Toby,

    Thanks for stopping by! I believe you have left out a very significant part in your analysis, let’s take a closer look as to why. Concerning “taqiyya”, this is what Muslims are openly saying themselves, and is not an invention by non-Muslim to help maneuver Muslims into a Catch-22 position from where they cannot offer a defense. Muslims who are openly against sharia have no problem indentifying these very same Muslim groups like the umbrella group FIC and the FIP, as well as warning about the practice of dissimulation.

    Useful western stooges who would rather believe those who “mouth seemingly moderate things to non-Muslim ears, then say what they really mean to their own co-religionists” are part of the problem. It is such western stooges who believed that the Soviet show trials were actual courts of law and that their system of justice was of high standards, perhaps surpassing those in the West. You need to go no further than the Palestinian Authority for concrete evidence of Arabs talking out both sides of their mouths. The Europeans just eat up their words, they can’t get enough!

    But first, let us back up a bit. The practice of “taqqiya” crosses religious lines between the Shiite and the Sunni:

    Taqiyya Part I

    “The following exposition will Insha Allah demonstrate the existence of al-Taqiyya in the Quran, Hadith, the Prophet’s (PBUH&HF) custom, and the
    companions’ custom. As usual, Sunni books will be used to further the argument. This is in keeping with the commitment to reveal the truth by
    showing that the Sunnis reject the Shia’s arguments, while THEIR OWN books are replete (full) with the SAME ideologies that the Shia uphold!”

    Didn’t you read what Anas Hajjar was saying? The man was clearly stating that the FIC shares the goals of the FIP, but these converts are still too unskilled in their dealings with the media, they should be more guarded in what they say. You see something great there, while the rest who have contacted me agree with my assessment. I would wager that many more of the experts that I know personally, here and abroad, would be reading Hajjar’s words in much the same way as I. You see no evidence of his lying, I see his double speak as plain as day.

    His position does not agree with my position, because he is presenting his argument from a point of weakness. He does not hold Abdullah Tammi’s views as wrong, but that the timing is not right. Hajjar sees “societal activisties” WHICH MUST MEAN Islamic initiatives outside of normal political everyday politics is something that might interest them in the future. Now is not the time. EVEN WITHOUT such a party, they have scored some gains like “Muslim only swimming hours” being posted in the Swimming halls of Helsinki, Turku and Tampere.

    According to Hajjar, the FIP is indeed ridiculous, but only in their naivety, again, he has not criticized their views on women, the sale of alcohol, different school curriculum for Muslim students etc etc. You’re accusing me for believing Hajjar is lying, is due to his solely being a Muslim, is offensive as it is misplaced, wrong headed and feels down right snarky. I have Muslims contacting me all the time, and I judge them by what they say, AND BY WHAT THEY ARE DOING. If I distrust Hajjar, its due to his own indiscretions, not mine.

    While the Islamic Community is divided, what Islamic groups have we seen condemn them, and given the reasons as to why they are doing so? Just where do Tammi and Ilk are violating Islamic precepts? Just where Toby, is the FIP getting it all wrong from the Qur’an, what groups have been vocally showing in black and white how Tammi and Co. are interpreting Mohamed all wrong? Outside of a few lone individuals who I have mentioned here, that Tammi and clan do not know what they are doing, that sharia is incompatible with democracy, we have yet to hear anything at all from all the various Islamic groups, or from the umbrella group the FIC.

    While I might be guilty of pushing a singular religious identity on to what were previously predominantly diverse and ethnically self defining groups, these groups are doing themselves a great disservice by not showing in any meaningful way just how different their brand of Islam is from Tammi’s and the Islamic Brotherhoods’. Also, the Islamic Society of Finland having a link to the radical Egyptian sheik, Yusuf al-Qaradawi’s website does not bode well with a modern, sharia free Islam that were are hoping for. ISF I just thought you’d want to know about that one.

  5. Hajjar wasn’t “clearly stating” anything. All he has said in that article is about achieving their “goals”. So again – unless you have some evidence that you aren’t sharing with us – we don’t know what those goals are. They could be the greater provision of RE teachers trained in Islam, as is the right of all Finnish school children to have RE lessons in their own faith if they so wish. It could be that their goals are to break down the prejudice against visible minority immigrants that mean that unemployment rates are much higher amongst those groups. Your presumption is that their goal is the downfall of western civilisation and everything that follows comes from that. I don’t know the man and have no idea about him, but you mention his “indiscretions” so you clearly know more. I will defer to that knowledge.

    Of course some Muslims know about Taqqiya, but lots don’t. I’m from a Christian background but only found last weekend that this year the pope is giving papal indulgences out if you visit Lourdes this year. Perhaps everyone off to the Pyrenees this summer are looking for a quick way out of purgatory?

  6. Toby: “Hajjar wasn’t “clearly stating” anything. All he has said in that article is about achieving their “goals”. So again – unless you have some evidence that you aren’t sharing with us – we don’t know what those goals are. They could be the greater provision of RE teachers trained in Islam, as is the right of all Finnish school children to have RE lessons in their own faith if they so wish. It could be that their goals are to break down the prejudice against visible minority immigrants that mean that unemployment rates are much higher amongst those groups. Hajjar wasn’t “clearly stating” anything. All he has said in that article is about achieving their “goals”

    Really? Then a clarification is in order. In response to Abdullah (Risto) Tammi’s FIP open intention to enter politics in order to further an Islamist agenda, Hajjar does not chastise the FIP for their stated goals, but only for the way they are going about it. Anas Hajjar:”We have felt that we can achieve our goals in other ways than by taking part in politics. Societal activities are something that we see in the future, but they are not our priority at this moment.”

    Nothing could be clearer. No open rejection of sharia, a clear FIP stated goal, nor any rejection of the radicalism in their platform. Though it’s only conjecture whether the FIC agrees with the FIP that the US is the “great Satan” for being in Afghanistan, (where have we heard that one before?) the FIC has never condemned the Islamic Society in Finland for its linking to the radical Islamist Sheik Yusuf al-Qaradawi. If the FIC chairman can’t bring himself to distance the group he represents from Tammi’s radical FIP, why would you be willing to do it for him?

    Toby: “So again – unless you have some evidence that you aren’t sharing with us – we don’t know what those goals are. They could be the greater provision of RE teachers trained in Islam, as is the right of all Finnish school children to have RE lessons in their own faith if they so wish. It could be that their goals are to break down the prejudice against visible minority immigrants that mean that unemployment rates are much higher amongst those groups. Your presumption is that their goal is the downfall of western civilization and everything that follows comes from that. I don’t know the man and have no idea about him, but you mention his “indiscretions” so you clearly know more. I will defer to that knowledge.”

    I already explained my reasoning, what he doesn’t say is as important as what he does say. Like I said, it becomes more than clear that he does not eschew the FIP’s open goals, stating only: “we can achieve our goals in other ways”. By what Hajjar is openly admitting himself, it is entirely correct to assume that he is only upset by the methods the FIP is using to achieve shared goals. You should know by now that Islam is at its core, a very political ideology, and if a Muslim is not speaking out against sharia he must then be for it.

    Toby: “Of course some Muslims know about Taqiyya, but lots don’t.”

    Interesting how you chose to word your opinion about al-Taqiyya, “some” Muslims know about it, while “lots” don’t. Do you not know, or have you not heard, about the influence Saudi Arabia, and others Arab/Muslim states throughout the ME and elsewhere in the West? Especially in this day and age with the internet and satellite dishes, Muslims living in Europe and other parts of the west are privy to all the ME has to offer them. I believe that it is correct to say that more Muslims –than you care to admit– know all about al-Taqiyya. BESIDES, the only way to gauge what someone truly represents is by what they say, what they fail to condemn, and most importantly by what they DO.

    Anyone that sits around a TV screen or with an MP3 player listening to the likes of Sheik Yusuf Qaradawi, or refusing to openly distance themselves from such an immoral racist and Islamic supremacist, has a severe credibility problem. Get it?

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